Order Only: Private Message to Sally-Anne and Ron

[alt_justin]

Hello,

I've been thinking about Stretton and Bill all day, what.

I can't help but feel that I've, well, 'dodged a bullet,' is how Muggles would say it, having done so poorly in my Aurors' interview.

On the other hand, one does want to do the job well, and if any of us are to position ourselves favourably in the Ministry, we shall simply have to compromise ourselves to some extent, what? I mean to say, after all, neither Bill nor Jeremy are working in MLE. It's simply that they're working for a sadist.

(By the way, Ron, did Professor Dolohov ask you how your interview went? That's why he held me back yesterday, to ask. He bally well confirmed that Sandoval thought him a fool for recommending me in the first place. He wasn't half disappointed.)

I keep thinking there has to be something else we can do to help, though, that doesn't necessarily require us to...to subvert ourselves in the process. I'm dashed if I can come up with much, though, apart from all going and joining Terry in Sherwood.

I say, it's jolly frustrating, knowing we've got more than a year before we can finish N.E.W.T.s and start making a difference.

-F-F

Comments

[alt_sally_anne]

Yeah.

I mean that's the thing.

On one hand it would be bloody useful to have someone from the Order in MLE. But you'd have to pretend you were someone like Sandoval. All the time.

And it's one thing to pretend to have the 'right' attitude and say 'mudblood' instead of muggleborn when people are listening and all the rest. Having to use the cruciatus curse on people -- that's not just words, you know?

At least Jeremy knows why. What do you think would be worse? Having to cruciate a friend, but know that at least they know why, and won't hold it against you? Or having to cruciate some poor sod for a stupid reason and not be able to tell them, 'I have to do this because I have to stay in this position so I can find out things that will let me bring down this whole awful government and put a stop to this nonsense for everyone'?

I think the second would be worse, but honestly I'm not sure I COULD cruciate a friend.

[alt_justin]

Sally-Anne,

Yes, just so. I was reading back over some of the Order's older posts. Mr Weasley's, for example. He wasn't placed in a position to have to Cruciate co-workers or friends, what, but he did have to go hard on innocent people all the time, whether or not he could find ways to help them in the long run.

I suppose it's the sort of thing we've simply got to learn to do. Pity there's no lesson or book that will teach one those skills, what.

-J

[alt_sally_anne]

Yes. He did. He and that woman who wound up joining Dogstar -- Norma Brown something? -- had to choose people to DIE, off a list. I mean they were going to make Norma do it and Mr Weasley wound up doing it for her because she couldn't bear to.

I just

I can't decide if it's better that Order members doing terrible things mostly try not to admit it (Bill's been keeping it a secret, except from Charlie and Mrs Longbottom, I think, although maybe the Twins knew as well?) because it leads to fewer people making these sorts of compromises and justifying it, when they could avoid it.

Or if it's worse, because people like Bill feel utterly alone instead of knowing they're not the only one making these sorts of awful choices.

It's not like no one in the Order uses Dark Arts, Sirius Black may not have cast the killing curse on Cadmus Mulciber but he clearly didn't intend for him to survive it (and since he DID survive it by using STRANGEWEALE'S POTION I rather think Sirius should have USED THE BLOODY KILLING CURSE.)

[alt_justin]

Well, I hardly think Bill's the only one making horrible choices. I think perhaps they're simply more starkly contrasted because his boss is so bally well vile.

In any case, I think there are lines one ought not to cross. It's one thing to use a curse that might kill someone but another to use one that one knows will kill. If we start using the Unforgivables all the time, what's to separate us from the enemy? (To say nothing of the fact that killing them like that denies them or the survivors any due process.)

It makes our job that much more difficult, true, but I'd rather not win by taking short cuts with my conscience.

-J

[alt_justin]

Mind, there's a difference between having to kill or be killed, what, and killing simply because one has the opportunity.

I wonder if Sirius thinks he ought to have used the curse or if he would do now if he had a second chance?

-J

[alt_sally_anne]

Even if he does think he ought to have, he'd never admit it to us.

Or at least he'd never admit it to me, he might to you! If you asked him privately.

[alt_sally_anne]

I will say I think it's a pretty bad idea having Bill Weasley be the one Order member who's casting Cardinals.

I guess the Order didn't really have the option of sending Frank Longbottom to take his job. Not without loads of polyjuice, anyway.

[alt_justin]

Is he the only one? I'm not so sure. Perhaps the others simply don't mention it when they do.

Then again, perhaps it doesn't affect them like it affects Bill. Come to think of it, he was dashed wrecked after the ritual last year--that's when he laid into Ron, wasn't it? I say, dashed bad form, that was. And that was after exposure to Dark Arts.

-J

[alt_sally_anne]

Yeah.

He was wrecked, and that's when he laid into Ron.

And you know, if you've properly studied the Dark Arts you'll be familiar with how it makes you feel. After class, if we cast a load of dark spells, I have a harder time settling down to sleep or to do revision on other subjects. And I know this now so I'll drink a soothing tisane and I know it'll be a good day for organising my trunk and practicing quidditch and not as good a day for working on Charms homework. You know? I know I'll have a bit of extra energy that day and but it's not terribly useful for certain things.

If you never studied Dark Arts because it wasn't available when you were in school, and if you're convinced that having that reaction means you're a terrible person and you're being utterly corrupted and it's going to turn you into Carrow while you sleep -- THAT'S NOT GOOD. And do you imagine Bill's going to say to himself after he's cast cruciatus on some poor sod who stumbled in late, 'well! extra energy! guess it'll be a good day for doing all the weeding when I get home!'

So yeah, if he gets a very strong reaction that makes what happened with Ron make more sense, doesn't it? Because he had all that energy, he didn't know what to do with it, and it turned him into one of those potions that'll blow up if you leave it in the cauldron too long. And Ron was the person who poked the cauldron and got the spillover.

That right there, THAT is why I think Bill Weasley shouldn't be doing Dark Arts in his job, but you're right that he might not be the only one.

[alt_sally_anne]

I know you didn't like those books but it sort of reminds me of a bit in 'Pure Power,' actually. Aramanth and Phoebus have to face each other, and Phoebus just won't raise his wand at all, and Aramanth ends up hurting him, because if they just refuse to fight, they'll both be killed.

Aramanth knows that if she hurts him badly enough, that'll be enough, and they'll both get away alive. And she manages it. But. She's also furious at him because if he'd fought her properly she wouldn't have had to hurt him as badly -- she feels like he took the easy way out, leaving it to her.

I kind of agreed with Amaranth when I read it but I think Hydra didn't (I mean, judging from what she underlined).

[alt_justin]

I remember that scene.

I say, if we were faced with the same choice I'd rather Hydra hurt me, even if I knew she'd forgive me for anything I might have to do. I couldn't forgive myself for lifting a finger against her but I know she's strong enough to do it and to forgive us both.

I was thinking...well, it seems obvious now that Bill's messages to Mrs Longbottom have had to do with evil things Mulciber's made him do.

But I wonder.... You know how we noticed last year that reading some of those texts was easier for some of us than others? And in the practical Dark Arts lessons--how sometimes we'd do a spell and feel...energised for hours afterward.

Do you suppose Bill experiences that effect when he casts Dark spells?

(Because to go back to the book, what, that's another reason not to succumb to the temptation to harm someone else, if it's at all addictive.)

-J

Private message to Justin

[alt_sally_anne]

Yeah, reading that scene made me think way too much about what I'd do in that situation. Because on one hand, I'd rather be the one hurt than have to see a friend hurt (let alone be the one hurting them). But on the other hand I think having to hurt me would just about kill Ron. I don't think he could forgive himself, ever. And I could -- I mean, if I had to, to protect both of us, I could forgive myself, after.

And I don't think it's a boy-girl thing so much as a Gryffindor-Slytherin thing. (Which is why it's so funny they suggest that Phoebus is the descendant of Salazar Slytherin, it's just not a very Slytherin moment he has there.) But, Astra Morgenstern was a Ravenclaw, I think.

It was sort of silly to spend as much time thinking about it as I did. I mean it wasn't just Ron, I thought about what if it were Basically I think it let me think about something other than all the awful much-more-likely things that could happen to us, you know? Playing those sorts of what-if games in my head.

That's probably why I like those books so much.

Plus I think in those books, everything will come out right in the end, and I'm rather less certain of that in real life.

Re: Private message to Justin

[alt_justin]

(By the way, I never said I didn't enjoy them. I said I didn't see why they were worth such a lot of fuss. They were ripping good stories but certainly not what I'd call literature, what!)

Anyway, I think it's a measure of the vestiges of chivalry, what. Not in the way Moon is always chuntering on about it, but--well, I say, when a man causes harm to a woman like that--particularly when they were forced to fight--it's simply not comfortable for a chap to read about. Or consider, what. But for a woman to do it under those circumstances is all right.

It's well odd, because it's not as if witches are any less capable of really hurting wizards than wizards are of hurting witches but--well, it's a double-standard, I suppose.

But it's interesting you're not certain we shall win in the end. I'm quite sure of it.

-J

Re: Private message to Justin

[alt_sally_anne]

Are you?

Why?

I mean, some days I think we will. Some days I think about the fact that Pansy and Hydra and Draco and Harry are all on our side and I think, SURELY that means there are more of us than we imagine and we're going to remake the world. We'll close the muggle camps and the muggleborns will all have wands and we'll make a place where muggles and wizards can live together and no one has to be secret and we solve problems together.

Other days I think we're all going to get caught and tortured and killed, right down to Kevin Longbottom and those babies that got rescued last week. And I can't imagine succeeding.

I mean I can't imagine not trying, even on those second sort of days, but I look at what we have to do and I don't see any way to get there and I see lots and lots of ways to all end up dead. So.

[alt_sally_anne]

And yeah, about the people who feel a lot more energy when they do Dark Arts -- I think maybe Bill's one of them. I just -- it would explain some things.

[alt_sally_anne]

And speaking of the easy way out, sometimes I feel guilty for wanting to be a Healer. There aren't nearly as many situations with no right answer.

Though the Order really needs more Healers. Even more now, with Stephen dead at Saltash.

[alt_justin]

If you're a Healer, you'll have to revise your opinion about the usefulness of the Killing Curse, what!

Or don't they make Healers swear a Hippocratic Oath?

-J

[alt_sally_anne]

It's not the Oath of Hippocrates, because he wrote that oath for muggles. There's a Healer's Oath. You're allowed to use magic that harms another if it's in self-defense but you specifically promise not to use your knowledge of Healing to harm another (because when you learn anatomy, it's -- versatile, you know? A Healer knows just how to hurt you, if they want to hurt you a whole lot but not cause permanent physical damage).

You also promise not to abuse the trust people put in you, which I think is the line that Madam Pomfrey uses as an excuse never to report us for casting things we're not supposed to be casting.

Anyway. The first line is, 'Before the witness of my teachers, I freely and by my own choice swear upon my life, my magic, and my sacred honor that from this day forward I will use my magic to Heal, and not to harm.' Which definitely means 'no killing curse ever.'

Obviously there are Healers who break their vow and so far as I know no one's wand has ever broken in their hand. I mean, that bloke I went to when I was little, his magic seemed to work fine, and he DID use his knowledge of Healing for harm, so.

[alt_sally_anne]

Anyway if I take that vow it means I can't ever cast the Killing Curse (or Cruciatus) but it doesn't mean I have to think no one else should ever cast it ever under any circumstances.

Also it doesn't actually rule out Dark Arts because you can use the Imperius curse to save someone's life. (And I have. In fact. So.)

[alt_ron]

Dolohov did, yeah. Before our lesson. He congratulated me for having made a good showing and said he hoped I was pleased about the opportunity. So I guess I did alright in Sandoval and Lamont's opinion.

I've been thinking I should talk to the Longbottoms before anything more comes of it. But I think I should go on with it if I get invited to apply.

[alt_sally_anne]

I think talking to Mr and Mrs Longbottom is a good idea.

But I do think it's worth going on with. I mean even if you just make some new contacts in MLE it could be really useful later.

And surely cruciating people is something you don't have to do until you're in the Auror Training Programme? They wouldn't make you do it in an internship. You might have to watch it happen, though.

[alt_justin]

Ron,

I agree with you and Sally-Anne. Only, I think I should wait and talk to them if you're offered the chance to spend time with the Aurors. If they don't make the offer, the Longbottoms don't need to know, what.

-Justin

[alt_ron]

Well. The thing is that if it does go further, I don't know when I'll hear from them or how.

So talking to the Longbottoms afterwards works if whatever's next comes as an owl in the morning post, but if someone comes and talks to me about it in person, then I probably want to have already had that conversation with Mrs L.

[alt_sally_anne]

You could PM Mrs L and someone a bit younger, like Tonks, and talk it through with them. They'd probably be sensible.

Maybe don't tell your Mum before you have to?

[alt_ron]

Hahaha. Mum.

You don't have to be a Slytherin to know not to tell Mum about this until... well, probably until I've already signed up and been to the first day of training. Maybe longer.

Tonks is a good idea, actually. I'd been thinking about Charlie, though.

[alt_sally_anne]

I didn't want to suggest Charlie in case you were worried he'd tell your mum! But yeah. Charlie would be good.